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Page history last edited by Stella 13 years, 6 months ago


PeopleCare Dialogues 

(>> if you don't see a menu to the right, plse click black arrow < top right)


This site was born on the 7th of January 2008, in order to fill in the increasingly important gaps in the understanding of permaculture design (and so knowledge and skills) observed during the last decade.  It's main reason and focus is to increase our collective intelligence, by trying to (very broadly speaking) bring our collective PeopleCare wisdom up to match the high levels of our EarthCare wisdom, in the great dynamic science and ethics-based movement that is PermaCulture. 

And to approach it from a design perspective.  


What is Permaculture?


You may or may not realise that all permaculture designers actually DO NOT AGREE on the basic definition of Permaculture.    Even most 'authoritative' permaculture sites (including wikipedia) give definitions which emphasise just 2 of the 4 components of design, as given in the DEFINITION of Permaculture Design, in the Designers Manual:


Every permaculture designer should know this diagram well because it is VERY fundamental: it basically says that any good Permaculture DESIGN is (defined as) the beneficial association of all types of components:


1) Site components (physical landscape stuff like water, soil, climate, plants, animals, etc.)


2) Energy components (including technologies to store and transform energies, structures, etc.)


3) Social components (people, culture, legal, commercial and financial stuff)


4) Abstract components (eg. time, data, ethics..)








You might notice that these are quite similar (not equivalent) to the Integral Models' 4 Quadrants


1) IT quadrant = site components

2) ITS quadrant = technologies components

3) WE quadrant = social components

4) I quadrant = abstract components



(see Art25 on The "WE" Paradigm, or the essence of "PeopleCare" for more about this)



The 5 elements of design model is the kind of typically 'common sense' input of the PDC which is usually forgotten or ignored - precisely because it is so obvious, perhaps - but infact we find that the basic reason for the failure of nearly all designs that don't work (and the mediocrity of nearly all designs which stay mediocre)  is that the Social and Abstract components, 3) and 4) are not taken into account, or only minimally (sometimes much lip-service is given to these other two components, but they are not actually integrated in practice).    


This is perfectly normal and to be expected even, given that practically all permaculture designers (at least in the West) are raised in & surrounded by a culture based on reductionist science (ie. also emphasising quadrants 1) and 2)   (the Exterior Quadrants)  

so how or where could we learn to do, think or understand anything different?  


(Quadrants are nicely described by the frog in the Integral Ecology site)

Integral Permaculture evolved from a need

to really integrate the Interior Quadrants

(yet not just talk about the frog of Integral Ecology, but the WHOLE system)


and is a dialogue started more formally in English on 2 Nov 2010 (link above)

but one of it's other beginnings was in 2003 amongst the NodoEspira team, a Spanish node of the Permaculture Academy

(who put together a very integral Permaculture Design Curriculum, long before knowing about the Integral model)





In an evolutionary context, the goal of the spiritual life is not peace;

it's perpetual development.

It's about the ecstasy that compels us to create the future.

And it's not a future that's going to unfold by itself,

it's a future that we must create through direct,

conscious, intentional engagement

with the life-process itself.  


- Andrew Cohen


Integral Permaculture originates from the following observations (amongst others):


In terms of design ability and progression, it seems that people start off integrating quite well the type 1) and 2) (physical / yang / right hand side) components, but getting to really include (at a more than token level) also the type 3) and 4) (ethereal / ying / left hand side) components is much harder, and infact very few designers seem to get there.  

This is not suprising as it's exactly where humanity is right now, in general, but it does cause some interesting problems in that it drives a few positive feedback loops, to our detriment.


This is an early attempt* at redressing the balance by placing the PDC curriculum in this 5 modules format, consciously emphasizing / giving more space to the 3) &4) (more ethereal / ying / left hand side) components of total design, roughly represented by modules 1, 2 and 5 (PeopleCare, Design Techniques and EcoEconomy &Transition). 


*(in the Nodo Espiral of the PC Academy, Spain)



3) & 4)

Módulo 1





3) & 4)

Módulo 2

Design Techniques



1) & 2)

Módulo 3

Earth Care


1) & 2)

Módulo 4


and BioConstruction


3) & 4)

Módulo 5 Eco-Economy and Transition




And this wiki is consciously also focusing only on these crucial Social and Abstract elements of Design, but in english..



Menu of this page



Welcome to PD

... Passionate Dialogue, PeopleCare Dissecting, Paradigm Dancing, Passionate Diatropism* ...

*Diatropism –noun Botany. The tendency of certain plants or their parts to arrange themselves at right angles to a stimulus.  


"People who manage to intervene in systems at the level of paradigm

hit a leverage point that totally transforms systems."

(from Art2, Intervening in Systems by Dana Meadows

- the Founding Mother of Permaculture?)


this wiki started in january 2008, whilst pondering this question:

Permaculture has - so far - not managed to change the current dominant paradigm.

Could it be because we are applying permaculture within the old paradigms, ourselves? 


Joining our Thinking ... Evolving


"Dialogue is people truly listening to people truly speaking."

Harrison Owen


When we all truly speak and truly listen, we can't help but generate

greater shared understanding.


The late quantum physicist David Bohm observed that both quantum mechanics

and mystical traditions suggest that our beliefs shape the realities we evoke.


He further postulated that thought is largely a collective phenomenon,

made possible only through culture and communication.


Human conversations arise out of and influence

an ocean of cultural and transpersonal meanings

in which we live our lives, and this process he called dialogue.


Most conversations, of course, lack the fluid, deeply connected quality

suggested by this oceanic metaphor.

They are more like ping-pong games, with participants hitting their

very solid ideas and well-defended positions back and forth.

Such conversations are properly called discussions.

"Discussion," Bohm noted, derives from the same root word as

"percussion" and "concussion," a root that connotes striking, shaking and hitting.


Dialogue, in contrast, involves joining our thinking and feeling into a

shared pool of meaning which continually flows and evolves

, carrying us all into new, deeper levels of understanding

none of us could have foreseen.


Through dialogue "a new kind of mind begins to come into being,"

observed Bohm, "based on the development of common meaning...

People are no longer primarily in opposition,

nor can they be said to be interacting,

rather they are participating in this pool of common meaning,

    • which is capable of constant development and change."



Conversation is thinking in its natural state.

Thinking is the conversation within us....

Words began in human beings in the process

of transforming gregariousness into co-operation.

Malvina Reynolds


Not all communication is dialogue.

Dialogue is shared exploration towards

greater understanding, connection, or possibility.






This started in order to have one easy place where to put all the significant articles that are coming up in some passionate PC dialogues.


See list in the menu > > >


Many of these articles already exist on the web, but they are all over the place and links have a maddening tendency to break, treasures can be lost forever by web re-designs of others, so they are copied here both for ease of access and 'treasure-copying'.


They are such important articles that having various copies on the web is fine, as this will maximise access to an important resource, and credit with link to original site will always be given.


PLEASE DO add or propose to add any articles or resources you think should be included. (see below, "Edit this wiki")




Where we Meet


(please add to this list ... wherever you´ve witnessed Passionate Dialogue happening in our PC community

.. put it here if we're all invited to join too)


The International Permaculture mailing list







Edit this Wiki


Take ownership!


This is a collective resource for the international PC network (english speaking parts), designed to be self-regulating and self-managing,


with the SOLE AIM of facilitating 'oceanic dialogue' in our permaculture community


Any permie can add (or propose to add) an article they consider very important, a link or add any other wiki page here, which is coherent with the spirit of Passionate PC Dialogue.


Asthere are no slaves volunteering*, the only rule is that if you want it to get some resource to show up in here, you do it yourself (it´s easy!)


*(Proposals welcome but don´t expect them to be acted upon - will only do so if there is interest, time, etc.)


For basic anti-spam security the password will be given individually, but to any permaculture designers who wants it -


please just say hi and who you are:




I'll send u the password and give you support in editing this wiki if you need it


Stella (initial & very temporary gate-keeper)




Links about Dialogue













Every permaculture designer should know this diagram well because it is VERY fundamental: it basically says that any good Permaculture DESIGN is (defined as) the beneficial association of all types of components:


1) Site components (physical landscape stuff like water, soil, climate, plants, animals, etc.)

2) Energy components (including technologies to store and transform energies, structures, etc.)

3) Social components (people, culture, legal, commercial and financial stuff)

4) A

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